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 SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma 
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Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 12:07 am
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New post SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
The prefect of the Newholy Office has stated to the press that SSPX must accept the teachings of Vatican II as revealed dogma.

Quote:
Although the new head of the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith is optimistic about reconciliation with the Society of St Pius X, he says that the teachings of the Church – including the dogmatic content of the Second Vatican Council – will never be up for re-negotiation, reports the Catholic News Agency.

“The purpose of dialogue is to overcome difficulties in the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council,” Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Muller (pictured) told CNA, “but we cannot negotiate on revealed faith, that is impossible. An Ecumenical Council, according to the Catholic faith, is always the supreme teaching authority of the Church.”

As prefect of the Congregation, Archbishop Muller is also the President of the Pontifical Commission “Ecclesia Dei,” the Vatican body responsible for dialogue with SSPX.

...

http://www.cathnews.com/article.aspx?aeid=32359


Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:24 am
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New post Re: SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
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"An Ecumenical Council, according to the Catholic faith, is always the supreme teaching authority of the Church.”


That is the heresy of "Conciliarism" btw. Conciliarism holds that an ecumenical council has the supreme teaching authority and that a council is thus above a pope. Conciliarism goes back to the Council of Basel. It was also popular with some Jansenists and I think that the Council of Pistoia, the grandfather of Vatican II, probably taught conciliarism. Roman Catholicism holds that the pope is the supreme teaching authority, whether he chooses to use an ecumenical council or not. That was defined at the true Vatican Council. Councils have no dogmatic value unless they are approved by a pope.

What a joke. We already knew that the prefect of Newholy Office is a heretic and not a Catholic. But this conciliarism would suffice of itself to prove it. Newchurch is heretical from the very top to the very bottom. Newchurch is not the Catholic church and Newbishops are not Catholic bishops.


Thu Jul 26, 2012 3:33 am
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New post Re: SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
Good pick-up. It does indeed express Conciliraism.

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Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:20 am
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New post Re: SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
But an Ecumenical Council includes, by definition, the Pope. Therefore, in the Ecumenical Council there is really the supreme teaching authority of the Church. Indeed, there is the Pope.
Conciliarism is different. According to Conciliarism, a Council of bishop (even all the bishop of the world but without the Pope) is superior to the Pope. This is false and non Catholic.
Instead, the danger of the statement of Muller is to suggest that if the Pope is not alone, but together all the bishops (Ecumenical Council), then his Magisterium has more authority. This is false too.


Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:49 pm
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New post Re: SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
Gabriele wrote:
But an Ecumenical Council includes, by definition, the Pope. Therefore, in the Ecumenical Council there is really the supreme teaching authority of the Church. Indeed, there is the Pope.
Conciliarism is different. According to Conciliarism, a Council of bishop (even all the bishop of the world but without the Pope) is superior to the Pope. This is false and non Catholic.
Instead, the danger of the statement of Muller is to suggest that if the Pope is not alone, but together all the bishops (Ecumenical Council), then his Magisterium has more authority. This is false too.


Yes, I agree that's the particular form of Conciliarism that Muller is expressing, but it's the same fundamental heresy - the denial of the supreme power of the pope, and the placing of that power in the council. Instead of believing that the pope has the same infallibility with which the Church is endowed, he believes that only a general council has it.

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Fri Jul 27, 2012 1:04 am
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New post Re: SSPX must accept Vatican II Dogma
In my experience with Vatican II priests, they are Conciliarists because they believe that Vatican II is dogma even though Paul VI expressly withheld dogmatic approval. They solve that "problem" by saying that an ecumenical council is infallible without the special infallibility of a pope. Quite possibly Paul VI and Vatican II intended that Newchurch would later draw that conclusion.

Quote:
"An Ecumenical Council, according to the Catholic faith, is always the supreme teaching authority of the Church.”


I still say that is heresy. It attributes infallibility to an ecumenical council without the infallible approval of a pope.

Besides, the wording excludes papal infallibility.


Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:45 am
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